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Presidential Adviser, Sunday Dare, CON, Says Nigeria’s Economy is responding well  to President Tinubu Reforms and the Signs cannot be ignored. In this interview in TVC he presents a narrative compelling. 
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Interviewer 1: Thanks for joining us on this segment of the program from Abuja Studio. 

President Bola Tinubu says his administration is on a mission to revitalize Nigeria's economy after years of stagnation. With a clear vision of sustainable development, the president has introduced bold economic reforms aimed at stabilizing the nation.

Steps taken so far suggest a deep understanding of Nigeria's potentials and the decisive actions required to unlock them. A cornerstone of the Tinubu's economic recovery plan is the removal of fuel subsidy, a policy that has long drained government resources. By eliminating the subsidy, this administration has freed up billions of Naira for investment in critical sectors such as infrastructure, education, and healthcare.

While the immediate aftermath saw a spike in inflation and public unrest, the president remains steadfast, urging Nigerians to view the move as a necessary step for long-term economic growth and stability. 

Interviewer 2: The federal government's efforts to restore confidence in the Nigerian economy extends to stimulating inflow of foreign direct investments. Recognizing the need to attract global investors, the government has undertaken reforms to make Nigeria more business-friendly. This includes improving regulatory frameworks, streamlining bureaucratic processes, and addressing insecurity in key economic zones. The administration has also taken significant steps to stabilize the Naira and curb inflation through monetary and fiscal reforms. The unification of exchange rates and collaboration with the Central Bank of Nigeria reflects a commitment to transparency and predictability in financial markets.

Now let's turn to our guest who will  weigh in on other critical pillars of President Bola Tinubu's economic agenda. Join us as we welcome the Special Adviser to the President on Media and Public Communications, Sunday Dare. Thank you for joining us on the program this morning.

Nice to have you in our studio. Well, let's begin. Nigeria's inflation rate dropped to 24.48 percent in January following the rebasing of the Consumer Price Index, marking a sharp decline from the 34.80 percent recorded in December under the old CPI methodology.

However, this statistical drop does not mean that the prices of goods and services have fallen. How then do you reconcile this emerging signs of economic recovery? 

SA: Thank you very much. I think there's a reconciliation, and I dare say that the data we're beginning to see reflects the reality that we're seeing on ground. It might not be a hundred percent, but there's a reconciliation, and let me take that further. Rebasing is what is practiced in all economies. Nigeria had rebasing in the past. As we speak this year, the U.S. will have its rebasing of its economy. So the rebasing of our economy, what it does is that it helps to reveal the new structure of the economy, what the service sector is doing, what the agric sector is doing, and it helps government to prioritize investment and development. Also helps foreign investors to know where to really come in, the strength and the weakness of the Nigerian economy.

Now, where is the reconciliation? We've seen a drop to 24 percent. Connect it to that ambitious and courageous budget of 2025, where the President Bola Tinubu, promised that based on the reforms taking place, we'll see a drop down to as low as 15 percent. Now, that trajectory has already started.

Now, we might look at the signs that we see when it comes to dropping food prices as very minimal, but it's important you look at 40 percent, between 30 to 40 percent. In the last one week I've seen Al Jazeera, this March, and a number of it hit Bloomberg News, a number of international media. I've gone to the market personally, what local media houses should do to really test the reality of the data they're seeing.

So you can't take the drop in isolation. You look at the reality on the ground, and we're seeing those realities. Beyond the food prices, there are a number of other signs that we're beginning to see that we can speak to data with boldness and speak to the fact that the agenda of the President of running an economy that is inclusive, that is based on sustainability, and shared prosperity is clearly on course.

Interviewer 1: Okay, then how do we also reconcile, it's good to note that there's been some drop in food prices, but how do also reconcile that certain policies tend to reduce the purchasing power of the people? For instance, when you have electricity bills going up, the hike in price, that telecom goes up, and several other things goes up. It reduces the purchasing power, the liquidity of the people. So at the end of the day, the liquidity that ought to help stimulate the economy. It's like it's been taken away from the people. Don't you think it'll have a long-run negative effect on the system? 
 
SA: Well, here's the starting point. I'm not an economist, but I speak from the understanding I have about political economy. When you have the weakening of the Naira, of course over time now in 20 months we've seen the Naira been strengthened and firming up, and I guess we'll come to that later. When the currency of the country is slightly weakened, it also weakens the purchasing power. And what you've seen is when you have the removal of those two subsidies from oil and also from forex, those are the two major subsidies that were removed. The president said, look, we're going to subject this to market forces. It's going to be willing buyer, willing seller. One of the best microeconomic decisions this president has ever made. Now, when you have economic policies and you take such decisions, you must have the passage of time to be able to examine its impact. Now, we can say with boldness that in 18 months we're beginning to see Naira firm up from 1,700 to 1,400.

Credit must go somewhere. It must go to the president who took those tough decisions. It must go to the CBN Governor, the Minister of the Coordinating Economy for really standing firm on these decisions all through.

So, we'll see increasingly that the purchasing power of Nigerians will also go up. What determines inflation usually is the cost of goods and services. And that's why there's so much coverage and focus on the drop in the food and services. You're going to see a correlation. When inflation is dropping and food prices are not dropping, then you raise some interrogations. But we're able to do the math right now. Food prices are dropping. PMS prices are dropping. And that was predicted when the oil reform started. We flipped the page from oil subsidy to an entire oil sector reform by President Bola Tinubu, upstream and downstream. We're seeing a competition, a price competition and a price war, which we've never seen before in our economy, in the PMS industry. Dangote and NNPCL, you know, you've seen the war in the last two weeks.

You've seen them advertising, real competition. That is what happens when you subject your economic policies to market forces. And those are the core elements of a 21st century economy.

We see President Bola Tinubu, you know, his hand is rarely on the wheels. You look at the tax reforms we are bringing in. You look at what we've had in the past. Our tax to revenue base, the third poorest on the continent. We've seen the revenue shoot up, 22 trillion. We've seen what goes to our governors from FAAC every month, triple. We've seen governors say, look, in the past we'll have ran to the banks to source local loans and financing. Now we don't have to because we're getting a triple dip. I think that when you plug these numbers together, you begin to see what Bloomberg actually said last week.

They said, “in the last three years, the fourth quarter in 2024, had showed the biggest pace of growth of Nigerian economy”. That wouldn't have happened without those tough decisions, very deliberate but focused, that has brought us to this juncture. 

Interviewer 2: Well, some people would say quite impressive economic reforms, they're well thought out, but some critics might argue that isn't it too much all at once, you know, dished out to Nigerians and, you know, having to deal with so much harsh economic impact and yet they have to wait, you know, because their own income is not commensurate with the economic reforms we see now.

Does the government have to dish out, you know, those economic reforms all at a go? You know, the impact is quite low.

SA: I think those concerns are absolutely legitimate. They're legitimate and you have a president who, I recall, he's several times, but I recall what he said when he gave his brief remarks at the Ibrahim Babangida book launch and he said, “Nigerians, I took over and I met a lot of challenges and responsibilities and I had to take those decisions for the sake of the future of our country, so this generation does not spend the money needed for the next generation”. But he also said, I thank you for your mandate, “I thank you for your perseverance and I thank you for your support and things will get better”. Now, that's a president who understands that, look, like a surgeon, if a surgeon looks at the equipment we use for the surgery and he sees that they will cause pain, a surgeon will walk away.

What happens to the patient? The patient dies. This is a president that does not want this economy to die. We've had other presidents have made, they've tried, they've made their attempts, but this country had never turned the cup.

And he says, the issues we've skirted around for so long, he was going to deal with them and that's what he has done. So the concerns are legitimate, but let me also say that when you look at the calibration of an economy under reforms, there must be connected decisions taken. You can't take one in isolation and then wait, you must connect, it's a calibration. And what we've seen is that an attempt to recalibrate the Nigerian economy, looking at the fiscal and monetary policies and other policies. But I think one other significant thing I must say here is the social investment that is taking place, the national cash transfer. 

You look at the United States, you have the Social Security number, which is almost a network. That database is used to give palliatives, send checks to Americans when there's inflationary pressure, when there's COVID-19, etc. We also have that, we call out social security network, which is based on legacy data and also biometric data that is being built, almost close to 120 million right now. Which means that with correct data, if the government wants to intervene to support different classes of people in the economy, they can do that. 

We've seen this government, we've seen this president pay attention to big data and that is the future of 21st century economy. So look at the national cash transfer for instance. Over 20 billion has been given up to almost 6.5 million Nigerians. These monies are getting to people. Already now we have 70 million Nigerians that will get 75,000 Naira. That is ongoing. At the SMMEs, which strikes at our youth and entrepreneurs, we've created more than 34,000 direct jobs. The data is there, the testimonials are there. And as we hit the midpoint of President Bola Tinubu's administration, we're going to see all of this play up because it's a very transparent administration and we engage with numbers and data as they come up.

Interviewer 1: I think one other concern is that yeah, there's this social intervention, there's a lot of other things that government is doing for the ordinary people. But like you rightly pointed out, the small, medium scale industries are there. And when you have some of these measures, some of these policies impacting negatively on them, at the end of the day it reduces their capacity to expand and they are actually naturally the drivers of the economy. So working with government, is that going to be an intervention from government for instance, talking about electricity and other things that kind of impact negatively on them, so that the burden will not be much. They can create more jobs and they can help government also stimulate the economy. 

SA: Well I think that some of those concerns have already been addressed. You look at the new tax reform bill. We've gone from about 51 different taxes to 10. That's a clear rationalization. We've also seen the BOI providing soft loans. When you go to the open market, the loans are 21 to 24 percent. Whether it's big business or small, medium scale businesses, they all go for loan. Whether you're taking five million or you're taking five hundred million. But you go to BOI, you get a single-digit loan. That's critical.

And I think what's important is that even the entrepreneurs must apply themselves to the opportunities available under the current administration. Now there's also a, I think there's a loan or a budget, a grant to de-risk some of the loans that could be taken by the medium scale industry. About 94 billion. It is also there. So you see a president who is taking decisions but also providing solutions. Not just only for corporate Nigeria but also for the young, younger generation, for the small entrepreneurs. The president believes that the youth of our nation are the future of this country. 

Yesterday something very remarkable happened when they launched the National Health Fellows at the State Bank. 774 young people who are health professionals will be working as fellows for one year. And when the request came from the Minister of Health and Social Welfare, the president responded in time just like a true leader and statesman. He offered automatic employment to 774 young people at the end of their fellowship. And he said “you form the pillars of our health care delivery system”.

So you see a president who is adept at responding to challenges, not just occasions, but also to challenges that is needed to move this economy forward. 

Interviewer 2: Well infrastructure remains a big challenge for this administration from roads to power supply and water resources. These sectors are also very critical to economic growth and development. But despite the increase in the budget size, what deliberate measures are in place to ensure adequate funding for these sectors? 

SA: Thank you. I think that's a very fundamental question and I think what we have to work with is a 2025 budget, which the president signed on Friday last week. And he said two things are critical. He said “we must honor this budget with discipline”. What kills the budget is lack of discipline. This president, President Bola Tinubu, who says “we must honor this budget with discipline”. The second thing, he says “we will not spend what we don't have”. These are two of the major things that really kill the budget. Because when you have a robust budget, it now boils down to the release of funds and also to the implementation.

Now you talked about infrastructure. And I think the four core areas or three core areas of that budget is human capital, about 5.7 trillion, Infrastructure, 5.9 trillion, and then you have other areas. And I think that for infrastructure, over 36 roads have been constructed. You talk about the Lagos Coastal Road, you talk about the Sokoto-Badagry Road. You know, these are critical. When you look at economies in the past that have been revitalized, it had to do with means of transportation, whether it's rail, whether it's road. But beyond that, recall when the Lekki Corridor was open, everyone thought that President Bola Tinubu, who was then governor, didn't know what he was doing. That corridor has opened up in the last 15 years some of the highest rates of real estate. We've seen the Dangote Refinery in that direction. We've seen the free trade zone. We've seen a lot of development along that. That Lagos Coastal Road will be one of the best, when completed and fully utilized, will be the one of the best projects ever put on by any president of this country. 

And go back. Go and look at the history of the American Revolution - the Rail Revolution, the Road Revolution, and it catapulted America's economy up. So this administration is committed to implementing its infrastructural vision. You see a president who has shown clearly a commitment to infrastructure, but we see a commitment to human capital development, and also a commitment to the younger generation of our country. 

Interviewer 2: Alright, we'll come back to you shortly, but we'll have to take this quick commercial break now. You can stretch a little, sip some coffee.

Interviewer 2: Thank you for staying with us. You're still watching TVC Breakfast and we're live in our studio with the Special Adviser to the President on Media and Public Communications, Sunday Dare. Well, the minister of agriculture is quoted to have said, “contrary to the claims by naysayers, Nigeria did not import food”. He asked that the recent drop in food prices across the country is a direct result of deliberate efforts of President Bola Tinubu. Is there an assurance that this trend will be sustained? 

SA: Absolutely. And when you try to interrogate the recent drop in food prices, you cannot judge four key reasons. One is the fact that security has improved. We know very clearly that our farmers were driven away by bandits, you know, criminal gangs. We know that farmers across the north had to pay to be able to spend a few hours on the farms. And we have the data for that. Now the farmers are able to spend more time. And you can see the increase in agricultural output. That's very important.

You also see the removal of middlemen and a bit of bottlenecks in that process. So I think that that's the trend that will continue. We have seen the interventions they have done for food security under this administration. You've seen that we have over 300,000 farmers engaged in dry season rice farming. We have about 400,000 engaged in wheat farming. Just, you know, a couple of those interventions. And I think sometimes it's the testimonials that really speak to the reality. You go to Briningwari during the campaign. President Bola Tinubu traveled about 9 p.m. all the way to Briningwari. That was the deadliest stretch of kidnapping. And he said, “look, let's go through”. Ninety percent of the farmers cannot go to the farm. In Briningwari, we have new farmer millionaires. We've seen the footages and the rest of them. 

In Osun State, you know, spanning Oyo State, and I've experienced it. The story will soon come forth. And I think TVC is working on that story. We have young farmers who put their vehicles on display, put the houses they are building on display, and saying, look, we thank President Bola Tinubu for some of his policies, because the output of cocoa, the output of cashew, and several other farm products.So these are facts. There are evidential and it's because someone has been taking a combination of decisions that have produced. So we expect this trajectory to continue. 

Interviewer 1: Okay, and how do your government intend to add up to, yeah, food production is not a challenge, because it has improved. But we're also talking about the value chain, the processing sector, whether it's from the regions and all that. What is the government putting in place to ensure that, yeah, we don't just have this high production, that we can also build on the value chain and add values to that. 

SA: Let me respond to that by just speaking to what happened earlier this week at the House of Representatives. The representative, Honorable Lamiju Akala, went through the second reading.  Cashew is one of the major crops in the world. Nigeria produces about the second or the third best cashew. And the largest haul of cashew comes from Ogbomoso, and that's where I come from. And what we have is we have a lot of Asians coming in, just taking the cashew out, and the value chain is eroded completely. Now we know that MTN has set up something in Lagos to process the cashew. But the second reading that has gone through is to make sure that they bring in equipment, that the federal government establishes a cashew processing plant in Ogbomoso, Oyo state.

That will add value. And I think that that is expected to be replicated in other regions. What we've seen in the past is that countries deliberately set up processing plants. It's about processing when you want to add value. Deliberately you go to where you have the incidence of the highest output and production of a particular product, and you set up processing plants. And I think with the cashew one, the way it's gone very far. I also know that, you know, the silos are alive, working with the Sovereign Wealth Fund. They're in charge of the massive silos. So some of the agri-output we're having now, the plan is already afoot. The Sovereign Wealth Fund working with the Honorable Minister of Finance and Coordinating Economy, they're off-takers. The excesses we're having now, because no, we're having the surplus now. You must also be forward-thinking to say, what happens when we don't have the surplus? So the silos are back alive now, and you have the Sovereign Wealth Fund managing them.

Interviewer 1: And also, let me quickly add, just the pace the federal government is working. A lot of people say the sub nationals are not working at that pace. Now, how does the government intend to ensure that the sub nationals also actively incorporate, because you rightly stated that the inflows to them are kind of tripled. So if that's tripled, what are they putting in place, whether in the states or in the various geopolitical zones, to ensure that we meet the federal government in the center, and everyone is better off? 

SA: Well, you know, the jury is still out on the verdict of whether the sub-nationals are performing adequately well, meeting the needs of development of their people. So I wouldn't really give a judgment, but I think that the numbers tell the story. And I've said it repeatedly, this over-concentration of blame on the president and federal government is completely misplaced.

Constitutionally, it's misplaced. Because when you look at the distribution of federal allocation of revenue, it's clear three levels. The federal government, the sub-nationals, and the local government. You read the Constitution very well. There are clear responsibilities. There's an exclusive list, and all of that, so that's one. 

Two, the reality is that what they're getting from FARC has tripled. So the question has to be that every state, citizens in every state, must interrogate the issues on ground, and also ask their governors the relevant questions, that's it. Every state must bear its cross. The federal government has done its bit - Increase the revenue going to them. And even President Bola Tinubu has said it. He says the sub-nationals have a critical role to play when it comes to development. And you've seen even the federal government under President Bola Tinubu reaching out to support them. In the past, the states came to the federal government to beg for money to pay salaries. That has disappeared under this administration, because they have enough to pay salaries. 

We've also seen them increase from 30,000, 23,000 to 70,000, 80,000. So as a government, federal government focuses on those critical elements of development, pulling the levers. The governors at their own level must also pull the levers, and I'm telling you very soon, with what is happening now, I think that the governors will have to answer, will have to show results for the resources that's coming to them. 

Interviewer 2: Well, the cost of governance is still a big concern. And despite efforts to show up revenue, there's still no effort to reduce the cost of governance, even though Oronsaye report is yet to be implemented. We've seen agencies that were supposed to be dissolved are still operational. 

SA: Well, the cost of governance has always been the bane of every government. And what the most recent example we have is Dodge, under the Trump administration.  We see the gutting that is taking place, you know, thousands of public servants being dropped. We see USAID, you know, being chopped off the board. So the cost of governance is always an absolute challenge, and even for our country is no different.

We've seen a focus and a commitment to bring down the cost by President Bola Ahmed Tinubu. Some of it might seem very cosmetic, reduce the number of your aids, reduce the number of your cars, etc. But when you also look at it, you know, personnel cost is huge.  The cost of also keeping a large region of aids is also huge. So the focus we have on it, on the part of the president that we really have to bring down the cost of governance, and I think that will take place over time.

The Oronsaye report, the president has directed that that be interrogated and used. But don't forget, there's been a time lag, when that Oronsaye report was produced, where was Nigeria at that point? Where are we at this point? So you must bring that report in line with the current realities.

Interviewer 1: So should that be a review? 

SA: Well, I think part of what they're doing, apart from, you know, suggesting what should be done, that there are elements of review there. Because you can't take a report of 15 years ago and implement it now. Even for a TV station, if you have a report of enhancing your reports 10 years ago, in this age of fake and deep fake, in this age of, you know, a blooming social media ecology and all of that, you're facing competition.

So I think that process is going on. Quite a number of processes are going on. Sometimes you must allow time, so that you don't have to come back to the drawing board again. And the fact that this president is interrogating the right things that need to be interrogated in order to really make sure that this economy is brought on its proper footing, I think that is important. 

Interviewer 1: When the administration removed some subsidy on petrol, the compressed natural gas was introduced as an alternative. But there are some challenges, and they include the limited access to refueling stations, high initial investment cost, and limited availability of the CNG itself. Are you not worried that the purpose of the alternative invention may soon be defeated, if more investment is not made in that sector?

SA: Well, I think that where we are now, we've seen, yes, there was a slow pace and that was because we needed to develop the CNG infrastructure. But I tell you that since November, December, we've had an increased pace. The wait time before to convert your vehicle to CNG was three weeks or four. Right now it's less than ten days. We have the importation of 1 million kids. Most of it will be given free, but we also have targeted CNG support for commercial vehicles transporters, which is going on seamlessly. We have that for, they call them motorcyclists. That is going on the one for motorists. I know that centres have increased across the country. I don't have the numbers right now. The uptake of CNG is going to take time. You see, to win this country or motorists off the use of PMS won't happen overnight. We're just looking at about 18 months or even 15 months of real, and I think there's a relentless campaign. We've gone through the stage of awareness. People are really convinced, it's an alternative that is needed. The president, right from the get go, embraced CNG because he saw that when you take away, when the price, when you take away subsidy, the price comes up. You must give people an alternative. It's like toll gates. When you have a toll gate, you give alternative routes. If you cannot pay the toll gate, you go this way. And then we have examples from India which has run the most successful CNG. And we're learning so much from there. So the uptake might take a couple of years, but it's an alternative and an option that has come. And I think that a lot of Nigerians will embrace that eventually.

Interviewer 1: Yeah, I think a lot of people agree with you that CNG is a good alternative. But is the government also considering this aspect that could it also be activities of a fifth of the fifth columnists to frustrate this intention? Because a good intention. But why is it that like two years down the line it's like still dragging? Are there forces trying to frustrate the effort of government to make CNG the better alternative?

SA: I don't really think so. Let me say why I say that. When you look at what's happening in the downstream oil sector, when you look at the effect of the market forces, when you see the competition, when the president said earlier that “the market forces will determine and Nigerians will have option”. Not many believed. We're now seeing that the prices are dropping and there's also competition. Now, while that is ongoing, I don't see what anyone would benefit from trying to jeopardize the CNG.

Interviewer 1: You're shifting focus away from fuel? No.

SA: Yeah. You know, you're just giving people alternative. That's what you have. You have electric cars in the US. You have CNG driven cars and they have PMS cars. That's the 21st century economy, you run alternatives. When you come to energy. You can run by normal hydro. You can go by solar. Okay. You can go by. There's a new hydrogen powered energy that will. So when it comes to the concept of energy, whether it's energy as the power, whether it's energy as drives our industries and our cars, those alternatives are there. This this is an economy that's providing all those alternatives. Now, the level of uptake is not essentially dependent on the investors, but also on the consumers. Most Nigerians, I may ask, how many of your cars have you converted to CNG? The government has provided the infrastructure. The incentives are there, you must drive your car. And the government cannot take that decision for you. It has given you the option. You apply yourself to that process. But I believe that, you know, you say it's dragging. I think it has increased. And I think gradually before the end of this year, we're going to see a more Nigerians embrace that. Dangote trucks, massive trucks across the country, massive trucks, 80% of its trucks now run on both PMS and CNG. And that's important.

Interviewer 2: Well, there is a lot of talk about President Tinubu's appointment. Some critics have accused the president of nepotism. Is the president making an effort to strike a balance?

SA: Well, this is the president who swore an oath to lead this country on the path of constitutionality, but also to bring the best hands to work with him. He’s a destabilized president. He has shown that over the years and over the decades in his political associations, in his pronouncements and actions. And I think that my response is, you're looking at a government that has over 2000 plus appointments yet to be made, a government that has the first term of four years and by God's grace, another second year term of another four years. Now, you can't cram all the appointments. I think it's too early to want to judge because we don't have the entire data to judge. So quite a number of appointments are still in the offing. Very critical appointments. And I think that the balance we, we so much expect will occur,  he’s a president that is he applies himself to data. He knows about the spread, you know of appointments. But I think for him what comes first is merit.

Interviewer 2: Well, let's quickly talk politics. Just last week, the APC passed a vote of confidence on President Bola Tinubu. But this does not translate to a vote of confidence by Nigerians and does not put him in the driver's seat ahead of 2027 election. What do you have to say about this?

SA: Well, first let me say President Tinubu is not worried about the next election, okay? He's worried about the shared prosperity that he can bring to Nigerians. He's worried about how the reforms he has put in place will yield necessary impact. He is concerned about what happens to the economy of this country eventually, and I think that's the focus. That vote of confidence did not come in a vacuum, because I was there at the NEC meeting when the governor of Ogun State spoke, when the chairman of the progressive Governors, Governor Hope Uzodinma spoke. When Senator Oshiomhole spoke, they did not speak in a vacuum. They reeled out a lot of data and you know, we've seen this data play out. We've seen we've seen our foreign reserves go up, we've seen inflation come down, we've seen our trade surplus go up by 16 billion. We've seen exports go up and imports drop. We've seen the investments that have been attracted over 50 billion. We are seeing prices dropping. So this vote of confidence was not in the vacuum. We had clear data and you have a president that is clearly in the driver's seat, and he has stayed the course of the decisions he has taken. And I think that the next election is not really in his view right now. It's how to make sure that at the end of his first term, he can sit back and say, look, “I have impacted the lives of Nigerians. I have turned this economy around”. We're looking at a 1 trillion economy. Our budget is just a $36 billion. When you look at our population, the size of our population is 54.9 trillion naira, $36 billion. When you do the math, it's actually a joke.

But we still have a president who believes we will generate more revenue. 22 trillion right now from IRS. That is going to increase. And I think that is in the driver's seat.

Interviewer 2: Well, we'll definitely keep an eye out for that. Thank you so much for your time with us on the program. It was a robust and interesting conversation. Thank you. Looking forward to having you again.

SA: Absolutely.

END

Friday, 7th March, 2025